Sleep aid question?

[the_stampede]

ok i've taken an OTC sleep aid for a while but just realized that its the EXACT same thing as benadryl, which i also take on occassion. mostly i take benadryl during school when it gets warm but it doesn't really make me tired, at least not like taking the sleep aid, which is the exact same thing. i guess the question is is there somehow they can be listed as the same substance but have different effects? they're both diphenhydramine HCL at 25mg yet seem to have very different effects? or is it just all in my head? just something that struck me really odd. similiar problems with other products that are listed as having the exact same ingredients in the same dosages that effect me differently. anyone got any info on this? and anyone got any suggestions on a better sleep aid? please don't say ambien because damn that stuff is expensive and don't think i would be able to justify buying that over the $4 walmart sleep aid. thanks everyone

[Ceebs]

Are you sure one of them doesn't have something in it besides diphenhydramine? Like pseudoephedrine?

It's a bit of a crap shoot anyway, because diphenhydramine will put you out, but you won't sleep deeply - in other words, you only get sleep, you don't get rest.

I use Gotu Kola to help me sleep when I can't, and sometimes Valerian or 5-HTP as well. 99% of the time when I can't sleep, it's anxiety-induced (ie, I toss and turn in bed ruminating about things that upset me), and the Gotu Kola simply relaxes me enough that I can turn my mind off and get rest.

What's the root of your sleeping troubles?

[the_stampede]

yea the products are exactly the same, with no added ingredients but one is sold as allergy medicine and the other a sleep aid. i've read benadryl is supposed to make you sleepy but it never has with me. as far as the trouble sleeping, its just i guess its a lot of stress and anxiety. i can never just go to bed and fall asleep, i toss and turn and my mind races about everything. i was thinking about taking some valerian but may look into the gotu kola if you suggest it ceebs. but mostly the lack of sleep is just from worrying about stuff that is sorta out of my control. thanks for the advice ceebs. i'm gonna do a little experiment by taking benadryl at night instead of my sleep aid, see if it works.

[Ceebs]

Solaray brand Gotu Kola is what I use. I tried another brand once (Nature's Way? Something like that), and it actually made me agitated. Very strange.

Good luck with righting your sleeping patterns. :)

[M$$]

Yes, many OTC sleep-aids are just Benadry, or diphenhydramine. I think it actually can work quite well as an anti-cholinergic and sedative, but I would take 50-100mgs. You will develop a densensitization to diphenhydramine over time, so it's not something you can use long-term at the same doses.

I have never played much with herbs, but I think trying Kava Kava, Valerian, etc...might not be a bad idea. Also, melatonin can be useful. I have had some success with 6mg just before bed.

As for prescription items, Ambien isn't your only choice. There are many benzodiazepines which are useful for treating insomnia, and many of them are available in generic form. A few examples would be generic Halcion, Restoril, or Xanax. Triazolam, Temazepam, and Alprazolam, respectively. These are all shorter-acting benzodiazepines, very similar to Ambien. The idea being that you can fall asleep and won't be "groggy" in the morning.

I also think traditional anti-cholinergic tricyclics can be used effectively for treating insomnia in the long-term (more than 2 weeks). Elavil (Amitriptyline) is probably the most common drug in this class used for insomnia. The doses for insomnia are typically significantly lower than doses that would be used to treat depression.

Anyway, just some ideas for you to look into. Insomnia can really get you down, and can put a serious hamper on your gains in the gym.

M $

[Iron God]

You should try injectable diphenhydramine (50mg) if you can find it. THat stuff knock you on your ass in 15 minutes. Lights out in 3 minutes if you do it IV

[WODIN]

Deiphenydramine takin in small doses will keep you going but if you take a large enough dose at once it'll knock you as iron god states.

[rtemple]

I’ve told this to many and I will tell it to you. Go to the doctor and get scrip for Seroquel. It’s non addictive and the affects do not lessen with usage. You’ll feel a little stupid in the AM but within an hour you’ll shake it off. Much better then walking around all day in a sleepless induced coma.

Seroquel is a mood stabilizer given to skitzos at around or up to 700mg / day. Take 50-100mg about 30 min before you plan to sleep. You’ll have trouble walking up the stairs to get to bed if you wait 20 min into it.

[Torpedo]

Solaray brand Gotu Kola is what I use. I tried another brand once (Nature's Way? Something like that), and it actually made me agitated. Very strange.

Good luck with righting your sleeping patterns. :)

that's pretty interesting Ceebs !

I have noticed the same thing with melatonin

0.3 to 0.5 mg seems to work far better than 3-6 mg (same brand)

The less the better ?

[Herc]

I used to take melatonin, but it gave me some really fucked up dreams. Not to mention keeping me sleeping for 10 sometimes 12 hours.

Now I take a product called ZmassPM from Cytodyne Technologies. It's got Vitamin B-6, magnesium, zinc, and potassium in it. I'm ultra resistant to over the counter sleep aides and so for me it's a great alternative to meletonin.

[Ceebs]

I have noticed the same thing with melatonin

0.3 to 0.5 mg seems to work far better than 3-6 mg (same brand)

Agreed, Torpedo. Melatonin would always put me out, but 3-4 hours later I'd be awake again, even more unable to sleep than I was before taking it. Dopamine surge? And yes, the dreams on it were crazzzy. http://www.dogsonacid.com/images/smilies/crazy.gif Maybe I was taking too much. I'll try it again sometime with only .5mg, rather than 3mg.

I've heard good things about ZMA. You could make your own by taking Zinc, Magnesium, and B-6 (I think) if you were too skint to shell out for a commercial preparation.

[saint808]

i have true insomnia... even went to a sleep disorder clinic until my health insurance ran out. Went through a bunch of things that were mentioned here. The only thing that knocks me out is a large dose of benzo's comparable to that of which you may give a race horse.... which i can't do all the time... . and it totally sucks.